since Civil war has already started in several countries it's time for a discussion post.
How did you like the movie? What are your favorite parts? What didn't you like?
Was is like expected?
I am going to see the movie later today (already wearing my Team Cap shirt) and i am hoping to get a lot of good Bucky/Steve scences.
since the movie has started in most parts of the world i thought i open a discussion post at the community.
Here you can write down everything you liked, didn't liked etc.
Please be aware that you might get spoiled a lot when you read the comments on this post!!
So if you want to avoid that please stay clear of this post.
And the rest of you, have fun ;D ♥
Can you believe it in less than 3 weeks (at least outside the US - sorry guys XD) we finally get Avengers 2. ♥
( Read more... )
In my opinion very well written and very informative :D
But again, be aware SPOILER!! ;D
Steve Rogers may do a lot of punching in this movie (perhaps too much punching, dare I even say it), but his real "superpower" is his status as a role model and leader. In the end, it's Steve who decides that SHIELD is beyond salvation, Steve who inspires Falcon to join the fight, and Steve who persuades SHIELD agents to ignore direct orders because it's the right thing to do. As with Bucky and the Howling Commandos, he's the guy with the guts to go first when confronting everything from schoolyard bullies to the guys giving him his orders, and as a result you can really understand why people want to rally behind him as a figurehead. He may not have the firepower of Thor or Iron Man or the political sway of Fury and the top brass at SHIELD, but he's the one trustworthy rock in the shifting moral sands of SHIELD and HYDRA, and that's what makes him important.
It's a little depressing to compare Steve Rogers to the bastardized version of Superman we saw in Man of Steel: a guy who needlessly fought a battle in the middle of Metropolis when he could've just flown it out into a field somewhere (HELLO CIVILIAN CASUALTIES), and who then snapped the neck of his enemy. Meanwhile Captain America (not just a soldier but also one of the few superheroes who occasionally wields an everyday gun) primarily fights with a shield, and ends his final battle scene by lying down and surrendering because he'd rather die than kill Bucky. I just wish there had been another scene like the one in Avengers where he coordinates the civilian evacuation in New York, but that would've been logistically impossible because all of the public fight scenes were desperate chase scenes across DC motorways.
The superhero genre has spent a long time trying (and usually failing) to bring compelling antagonists to the big screen. Either you get an excellent actor to play someone so utterly batshit that their motivation doesn't matter (i.e. The Joker), or you use a shades-of-grey villain with an comprehensible motive (i.e. Loki or Magneto). Then there's the additional problem of the end-of-movie showdown, which is usually only interesting on the first viewing, and in some cases not even then. The Avengers has the best battle scene I've seen so far, because the it pays a great deal of attention to each of the characters' strengths and abilities, rather than just being a rockem-sockem war of attrition. Captain America was sadly one of the worst examples in this regard because Red Skull was a terrible villain, and the movie would've been vastly improved by just adding 20 minutes more of the Howling Commandos instead.
CATWS seems to have learned from its prequel's mistakes, and thus the structure of the final showdown follows a similar model to that of the Avengers, with the added bonus of having no specific Bad Guy for Steve to punch into submission. Instead, Steve and his allies have to deal with the far more amorphous problem of HYDRA, which in the 21st century has less to do with battling a preposterously evil-looking Nazi cult, and more to do with the general theme of moral greyness within the government establishment. You can tell by process of elimination that Alexander Pierce is the "bad guy," but the truth is that he's not all that different from Nick Fury, which is kind of the point of this entire movie.
One of the central tropes of the superhero genre is the "two sides of the same coin" nature of a successful superhero/villain pairing. Superman mostly fights aliens (with the exception of Lex Luthor, who is the opposing figure for Clark Kent rather than Kal-El), Spider-Man deals with animal-themed scientists, Iron Man goes up against a lot of scientists, engineers and people with robot armour, and so on. Obviously the vast array of superhero characters means there are plenty of exceptions to this, but as a rule, the most popular superhero/villain pairings are between characters who mirror each other in some way.
In CATWS, there isn't really a central figure who takes the position of the Red Skull. The waters are far murkier this time round. Bucky is Cap's direct opponent, but none of us really want Cap to "defeat" him. Professional kickpuncher Brock Rumlow (you know, the punch-kicky man) is evil cannon fodder. Zola is an expository prop. Alexander Pierce is the closest we get to a primary supervillain, but his power is more to do with what he represents than what he actually does. I'd actually say Cap's main "enemy" in this movie is the loneliness of his life in the 21st century.
The film never explores this in any explicit way, but I think CATWS is a story about a guy who is borderline suicidal. Steve Rogers may not actively attempt to kill himself, but he literally tells Sam Wilson that he doesn't know how to be happy, and the opening action sequence involves Cap throwing his shield and helmet aside to have a pointlessly macho showdown with Batroc. This is not the behaviour of a normal Steve Rogers, and while we can potentially attribute that particular scene to bad writing, Cap's overall mood throughout the film is that of a lonely, unhappy person who doesn't really have any reason to carry on living. He's sticking with SHIELD because he thinks they're the only viable option, not because he actually believes in what they're doing.
The depressing thing is that the film's "happy ending" is Steve finding out that his best friend is alive (which gives him a motivation to keep going), but this is tempered by the fact that Bucky has spent the past seventy years going through unimaginable trauma. And I'm still not entirely sure if Steve had any intention of surviving the helicarrier being blown up, since he didn't make much effort to do anything except save Bucky. All this, from the supposedly un-gritty Marvel Studios.
Steve Rogers is a fundamentally friendly guy who operates best when surrounded by a unit of soldiers he can trust, and CATWS dropped him into the polar opposite of that scenario. The tone of the film is somewhere between a Cold War spy thriller ("Trust no one.") and a Bourne movie with Cap as the fugitive -- and the lack of a specific Bad Guy means that Cap is out of his comfort zone in more ways than one. He's forced to fumble his way through the unpleasant internal politics of SHIELD, where he is treated as a pawn by both Fury and Pierce, and has no one to turn to except Natasha and some guy he met while jogging at the park.
Honestly, I think this movie would've benefited from milking the "all my friends are dead" angle some more, or at least including one more emotional scene where Steve mourns or talks about Bucky. Hopefully we'll get some of that in the sequel. As it is, I was very satisfied by the way Marvel struck a balance by inserting their most wholesome superhero and into their most unpleasantly realistic story concept so far. CATWS was politically and culturally relevent without really supporting any ideology other than "freedom," and was about a thousand times more coherent than the incomprehensible mess of Occupy and terrorism references in The Dark Knight Rises. Even taking into account blatantly ridiculous moments like Zola's bunker scene, I think this movie should be the new gold standard for realism in the superhero genre, as opposed to grittiness for the sake of itself.
For example what happens if you can't throw the Cap suit in a waschine machine *gg*
( as always spoiler for Cap 2 and full article behind the cut!! )
so this is the discussion post for Cap 2.
Spoil and discuss as much as you like.
So anybody who hasn't seen the movie yet, please don't read the comments if you don't wan't to get spoiled.
How did you like the story? What was your favorite moment etc?
For the most part, Captain America: The Winter Soldier is the same epic superhero thriller in every country. But we’ve learned that
Cap’s to-do list, from the opening scene of the movie, looks a little bit different in other countries. Here’s a screencap from the U.K. version, for example (via Screen Crush):
And here’s the U.S. one we saw a couple of weeks ago:
In the U.K., Cap’s planning to marathon Sherlock instead of I Love Lucy. Disco (or was it pisco?) has been replaced by the Beatles. Sean Connery, not Steve Jobs, is the silver-haired icon that Cap wants to learn about. The 1966 World Cup Final is suddenly of great importance to him. And for some reason, the British version of Steve Rogers has not yet crossed Star Wars off his list.
Brits aren’t the only ones getting this special treatment. Our commenters have told us that Aussies have AC/DC, Skippy the Bush Kangaroo, and Steve Irwin added to the list, while Koreans get Ji Sung Park, Oldboy, Dance Dance Revolution, and Oldboy. French fans see the 1998 World Cup and The Fifth Element, among other things.
It’s not uncommon for different markets to get different edits of a movie, sometimes with added scenes of special interest to locals. The move doesn’t always work, but Winter Soldier‘s shifting to-do list seems like a cute way to wink at international audiences without radically altering the movie. Besides, Cap should look into Oldboy. It’s a really good movie.
Captain America: The Winter Soldier — you know, the version with I Love Lucy and Steve Jobs — arrives in American theaters on April 4.